Hi Figs,
Here's the first debate…
Prior to this we had angels visit the lead character, Seth. He and his wife, Megumi, watched Pi'em on The Molony Zone, and Pi'em was impressive enough that Mr. Molony invited him back for a guest spot, which was Part 3 - Pi'em in the Zone.
Now you're up to speed, BUT, this is where it gets dicey. This section takes a quick look at Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and several Protestant denominations. Trying to address their details while adhering to Pi'em's character is difficult, and I'm trying hard not to be "too religious", but it is a chapter on the Two Witnesses and differences in the details is the target…
Aaaaahhhh, this is hard, so please be patient and give me any ideas you think would help.
BaTora
4/30: First TV Special
Molony turned to the camera. "Good evening. We're going to take a look at American denominationalism. We will talk about the mainstream Christian
religions tonight, and next week we'll discuss other, fringe, or popular movements. There will be no commercials, and we are doing a simulcast. You can
watch us on our network or the Chapel's live feed. This is truly the biggest audience we've ever addressed, none the less…" Molony pointed to the
camera. "Caution, you've entered The Molony Zone!
The camera pulled back and Molony offered his hand across the table to shake. "Hopefully through a little spirited conversation we can give our audience a
lot of good information to chew on?"
"I look forward to it." Pi'em took his hand. "But I must
warn you, I've had a policy for over 50 years that I won't talk about other religious organizations or persons by name. That's a very dangerous
thing to do."
Molony contended. "I appreciate your position, but we're not
talking about Passover verses Easter! We have global changes taking place. The skies are doing things never recorded. It's obvious we're going through
some kind of change, and the world is on the edge of their seats. Every religion is projecting their vision, and includes certain rogue nations strutting their
'call to action'. It's getting dangerous real quick."
"I understand."
Molony took a deep breath, shutting his eyes. He closed his mouth and held
it for a second, before blowing the air through his nose. "Pastor, we asked you here because of the way you handled yourself in the mix of these
religions. If I wanted someone to ignore my questions and spin everything back to the same old hell and damnation, don't you think I would have asked your
friend, Pastor Schmagee? I told you before; our ratings are not the issue. We want to know what is going on. We have a right to know. If you know something
aren't you compelled to share it?"
Pi'em sat up straight, his eyebrows raised. "Hey, I've been
'sharing' it for more than 50 years. We 'share' it everyday. Do you realize we broadcast in most areas up to 12 hours, Monday through Friday,
and we're always on 24 hours a day on the big dish? Not to mention our website. Everyone with a television has clicked by our show at least once. You know
the one. With the old man sitting behind a desk."
Molony pointed to the camera. "Don't confuse him with Pastor
Spotty."
Pi'em nodded to thank him. "No. No cigar, and none of those
'in your face' close-ups. I'm talking about this old man, and sometimes my son. We display the verses on the bottom half of the screen. I'm
sure this is ringing bells in many people's minds right now… 'Aaaah, that guy!' Yes, that guy. Anyone who wants to know our take on things has had
years to check me out."
"Okay, and we say you check out fine, so please help us get a basic
perspective while we look at America's situation."
Pi'em leaned forward a bit. "I think we can do that, and I
don't think we have to do any name calling, or drag anyone across the carpet. Their issues are addressed sufficiently in the Word."
Molony leaned back and threw his hands up. "Come on Pi'em, we
don't have five years to get through the Bible."
Pi'em sighed. "What do you want to know, Mr. Molony?"
Molony checked his notes. "Under the Christian banner we have several
denominations, but they fall in three primary groups: Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestant."
Pi'em folded his hands together. "Fore the most part, yes."
Catholic
Molony smiled. "Great. In our first segment we'll talk about my favorite; I'm a Roman Catholic. We, they, are the largest Christian denomination.
There are more than a billion of us worldwide. Most Latin countries are Catholic, so is Spain, and of course, Italy. We believe the Apostle Peter is cited as
the first pope, but the more modern understanding of Catholicism traces back to Constantine the Great."
Pi'em asked. "Does your church teach you the things written in
Revelation?"
Molony shook his head. "I've studied the Bible several times, but
we don't read Revelation much. We view the book, which we call the Apocalypse, as one of the toughest books to understand. Like you mentioned when you
explained the seals, trumps and vials, the symbolism is beyond fantastic."
Pi'em leaned in a little. "Every parable, metaphor, or
colloquialism is fantastic imagery if taken out of context. But to the trained eye and in context it can be a crystal clear picture."
Molony sat up a little straighter. "But Pi'em, It's a book
written during the 'apocalyptic' time! There have been many arguments against it's authenticity."
"So there is no Armageddon? You asked me here because the skies are
going through a routine cycle?"
"No. We believe the birth of a new age could happen next week, or in
millions of years. That's God's business. Armageddon was host to a lot of carnage, so it has become a 'colloquialism' as you say. We don't
view it as giving away any specific location. We would never do that in warfare, and this is a spiritual war."
Pi'em raised his eyebrows. "When you say the birth of a new age,
do you mean the Millennium?"
Molony shrugged it off. "That's another colloquialism. A thousand
years just means 'a long time'. The problem is people take it literal, and start guessing dates."
Pi'em nodded. "Let's forget dates and focus on events.
Regardless if it's a literal thousand or not, some things have to happen. The 6th seal, vial, and trump are followed by a 7th of
each, when Christ returns. So wouldn't that dictate there will be a 'time' when Satan is here pretending to be Christ returned to save us?"
"Sure."
"And when Christ does return it is to set up the Millennial temple,
which is his temple for the 1,000 year Millennium. But he doesn't just pop up and say here's my temple. He returns in dramatic fashion. There will be
two simultaneous battles. One is going to be in Israel, and I believe you will see the other in Alaska. These are the battles of Armageddon and Hammengog. They
are very real locations Mr. Molony. We can break down the verses if you like. Revelation is easy once you get in."
Molony looked at the camera. "Now I know what it feels like to be a
guest on The Molony Zone!" The audience laughed.
Pi'em picked up on the opportunity. "Since you're in the Zone,
what have you been taught about the Antichrist?"
Molony smiled, adjusting himself to this new role. "Well, I know the
word only appears in John's works. I viewed it as symbolic. You know, a ghost in your past isn't literal at all; it's just a reference to something
you would rather forget. We're taught the Antichrist is the collective forces of evil we contend with daily. Before we had you on our show I always thought
it had nothing to do with a certain individual."
Pi'em winked. "Therein lies the danger of a denomination. I agree
there are symbolic descriptions throughout the book, but that doesn't mean we are not to understand them? If you use Daniel as an overlay it stops you from
wandering."
"Wait a minute, slow down Pi'em. Let's keep it simple."
"Okay. If God is everything good, and he was made manifest in the
flesh… and if the battle is between good and evil? Then evil must be real, so evil would also be made manifest. Satan. And Satin did visit Jesus in the
wilderness." Pi'em held out both hands. "He also hassled Job, and he told God that he had been 'to and fro' from the earth. Of course he
is real. But he chose to be a fallen angel. He was not, and will not, ever be born into a human heritage."
Molony asked. "How can you know that?"
"The book of Jude. It's only one chapter. It's the last one
before the book of Revelation." He looked back at Molony. "It gives you a description of the fallen angels, and their status. A person has to trust
God to make the jump into the flesh, to be born that is. We all had to make that choice. Satan and his fallen angels chose otherwise."
"That's it?"
Pi'em shook his head. "No. Also because Christ told Satan to get
behind him, added with the fact he is now held in chains by Michael until he gets booted from heaven to come here and present himself as your God. It's the
position he always wanted. This is part of the sealing we are going through today. They were sealed and preserved for the people of the end time. So there is a
time identified by the Bible where these things become known, or you could say 'active'.
"How about the beast having the feet of a bear?"
"The bear meant nothing to them, but to us we can see it is Russia of
today."
Molony retorted. "How could they write about Russia? It didn't
even exist then."
Pi'em tapped on the table. "You're making my point. It was
written as a description of our time, not the geography of the world during their time."
"Why Russia?"
"God uses whomever he pleases, but you have to know something about
Russia… you have to go way back. God said Jacob I loved and Essau I hated. Get your staff to trace Russia's history, and I assure you next time we will
have a totally different conversation. Essau didn't care about his heritage and Russia is from Essau. That's why they are away from the fat of the
land. Did you know Russia is completely north of our most northern point? We are in the fat of the land, but you watch, they are going to want Alaska
back."
Molony pointed off stage. "We'll look into that, Pastor."
"You can also point them to the good old United States in the great
book of Isaiah."
"What do you mean they will want Alaska back?"
"That's where I feel the battle of Hammengog is going to take
place, at the second coming. Everyone in America will see the skies light up as 180 pound hailstones smash into those trying to get here."
"We don't believe man can understand the second coming. There is
so much symbolism that we can't take it literally. We have to read it and trust it represents God coming back in glory, just as I learned as a kid…
Let's see, Jesus now lives with you in glory, but he is also on earth among us, and then something about, one day he will come in glory. Anyway, it's
been a long time."
"Mr. Molony, if I just picked up and read Revelation because it's
at the end of the book and I wanted see how it ends? I might see it exactly as you describe. But there are over 30 points of relationship between Revelation
and Genesis. And although Revelation has a little over 400 verses, within them are about 800 references to other scriptures. It is by these we can
cross-reference and gain clarity and consistency."
"I'm just fine with my studies, sir." Molony looked down,
adjusting his suit.
Pi'em bit his lower lip. "No harm intended. I've seen your
show enough to know you would never follow a religion blindly, and I trust you feel you have adequate support for your doctrine. I'm not here to change
your mind; just answer your questions. Perhaps I should go back to being the guest?"
Molony smiled at the camera. "Good idea. Shall we move on?"
"Sure!" Pi'em smiled.
Eastern Orthodox
Molony looked at the camera. "Next is Eastern Orthodox. This version
of Christianity is most prominent in Russia and Greece. It was born as a result of disputes between Eastern and Western Christianity. Eastern Orthodox
believers reject the supremacy of the Pope, they reject the literal translation of the scriptures, and they reject the rapture. Their end times are expressed
through eschatology; a branch of theology regarding the final events of earth."
Molony turned to Pi'em. "How are they doing, Pastor?"
Pi'em cleared his throat. "Well, they do believe Christ will
physically return to the earth, and he will judge mankind. They also believe before he can do that, there will be a great falling away, and the antichrist will
be revealed. So until those two things happen I suppose they'll keep their noses to the grindstone."
Molony circled on his paper. "So they don't have anything to worry
about?"
Pi'em responded. "I wouldn't say that. They believe there will
be a tribulation before he comes, and that both the good and the bad will participate. So they expect to be here. They expect to go through it."
Molony asked. "What do you think?"
Pi'em smiled. "Sure. That's the hour of temptation, and during
it we will see both the great falling away and an awakening. At the end of the hour we will see the Antichrist revealed. The differences in how they see those
events and how I see those events are substantial, but since they expect to be here I'm confident there are many in their group that will sprout during
that hour. We read the scriptures differently, but they are familiar with the basic tenets."
Molony looked confused. "Would you call them safe?"
Pi'em corrected him. "I can't say safe if we're hoping for
a remnant to wake up. However, because they are firm in their stance against the rapture, they are more prepared to stand against Satan's tactics than many
other churches. Make no mistake about it, the churches are the target."
Molony asked. "What is their danger?"
Pi'em leaned back and threw his hands up. "Woah, partner.
You're getting me awfully close to judging, and you know I won't go there. I can only comment based on the scriptures. From that perspective I would
say my concern is they believe their final judgment is self-administered. In a way it sounds arguable, because judgment is based upon the actions of each
person, not God, so it is self-imposed."
"You can't blame God for what you did."
"Exactly. The rewards and punishments however are administered by God,
not ourselves. God is very much a tangible entity. He is the authority."
"But the judgment is well after Christ returns, so their biggest
threat today is following the world during the hour of temptation?"
"You got it. Overall, I think they have enough information to turn
their ship. You never know though? Satan's hour isn't called tempting for nothing!"
Protestants
Molony looked at the camera. "Very good. Let's move on. Our next
major group of Christianity is the Protestant movement. They started when Martin Luther protested against the Roman Catholic Church during the Reformation.
Protestants are not easily grouped like the others. This denomination covers a wide swath. Most of the differences can be seen by how close they hold to the
formal traditions and liturgy of their Catholic roots. Some can be formal, others not at all." Molony looked at Pi'em. "Anything else?"
"I would sum up the average Protestant believes ultimate authority
resides in the scriptures, whereas the Eastern Orthodoxy believes the supreme Authority belongs to the collective of their entire community, and Catholic's
give it to the Pope."
"So they disagree on who is in charge? Anything else?"
Pi'em nodded. "They believe faith alone is sufficient for the
believer."
Molony asked. "Versus works? Is it?"
Pi'em answered. "What kind of works did the malefactor on the
cross beside Jesus have? Whatever they were they got him on the cross. Yet in his dieing words he confessed Jesus, and Jesus told him he would see him the same
say… in paradise. That boy was nailed to the cross, so I don't think he could jump down and do much?"
Molony rubbed his chin. "Touché, but does that mean works don't
count?"
"Not at all!" Pi'em sat up. "Think of your works like a
savings account. They weave the fine linen of your reward in heaven. The problem is works without faith are dead. In other words if you give at church to get
noticed it doesn't matter if your contribution helped, because you did it for the wrong reasons. Getting noticed is your reward. People with faith but no
works to show for it are no different. They hide their light in the darkness. My experience has been that one who truly has faith will always have works. It
can't be helped. It's like water coming from a spring, and it flows."
Molony nodded his head. "Good point."
Pi'em added. "Some like the malefactor confess to God in their
dying breath. They may have squeezed in the door at the last second, but inside is still inside. That's why it's a key distinction for me that they
believe in justification by grace, verses the other sanctification processes implied."
Molony stopped him. "What do you mean?"
"People who lived prior to Jesus were here during the time known as
'The Law'. Now under Christ, we are in a period of 'Grace'. The people before Christ couldn't pray in Jesus' name because he wasn't
here yet. I mean, when people pray to the Father, Jesus is included, but He had yet to come in the flesh. They were subject to Levitical law, but we can be
cleansed of our sins through faith in Jesus Christ."
"That sounds too simple… just believe?"
"Well, let me put it this way… any teenager can make a baby and
therefore be a dad, but any successful grandparent knows the birth is only the starting point. How they parent makes all the difference in the world when it
comes to their family life and their children's opportunities."
Molony grinned. "I see. So a person's works is how they parent
their faith… I like that."
"Don't get me wrong, liturgy has it's place, but it has also
become pageantry. When Christ rent the veil from top to bottom he did away with the ordinances placing another man between him and his children. You can look
at the recent scandals in the church and see even men who dedicate their life to God are capable of despicable things. Everyone is."
Molony marked his notes. "Do you agree with the Protestant view
regarding the priesthood of all believers?"
Pi'em paused. "If you are asking if I believe every soul has a
direct relationship with the Father, and has the ability to take their problems directly to him even if it's only in their heart? Yes. There is no
authority people need to go through. There is no man who can hear your confession and tell you by repeating prayers and counting beads it will make things
okay. Prayer is not a punishment or a recital! It's our direct exchange with the Father, who will answer you while you're in study. He only needs to
hear your heart honestly expressing what it feels. Once is enough. If the repentance is there He will know it. You're crazy if you think God wants to see
you write the same sentence on the blackboard a thousand times."
Molony prodded. "I can see that, even though I've counted a lot of
beads. Let's move on. Do you agree with Protestant views of the scriptures being the ultimate authority?" Molony turned to the camera. "Verses
Catholicism which has a liturgical hierarchy, or Orthodoxy where the church as a whole has authority."
Pi'em leaned forward on his forearms and folded his hands.
"We'll, I'll keep this simple. Jesus told us the Bible contains all that we need to know, so if you have it in context you would be in accordance
with God's authority… as expressed in the scriptures. But here's a little caveat, in the first chapter of John it says in the beginning was the Word.
It says the Word was with God, and the Word was God. There is but one Authority, one. He has many ways to help ensure the body of the church acts accordingly,
but if you grant the actual authority to the word, you risk allowing a person to get between you and God."
"How's that?"
"Every denomination has a leadership and learning curve. That makes
young students dependant on somebody for instruction. All the different denominations can't be right, so if the teacher is wrong, how much more the
student? We all need teachers, and they themselves struggle with accurate discernment. How can you make that or enforce that authority if the same words are
read differently?"
Molony pierced his lips a bit. "Hmmm?"
Pi'em jumped in. "You go to God for clarification. It's his
word, and he authored it. Here, I'll give you one more quick example. The word tells us how to anoint for healing. We know we are to have a little vial of
pure olive oil. We pray for God to bless it, whereas any Christian, any with the spiritual hoss to get it done, can dab a little oil on their fingertip and
anoint whatever needs anointing. It could be the doorposts of a house, or the forehead of a fellow believer. The Word didn't bless the oil, or heal, and we
surely didn't do it. God does the healing, not the guy holding the oil. We go through the process to show obedience, and to demonstrate we are familiar
with what God would have us do. The only way to know is to stay in his word, with discernment of course."
"You said those with spiritual hoss? Why do they need anything if God
does it all?"
Pi'em raised his eyebrows. "Have you ever seen a real demon?"
"No."
"You would soil your pants. I don't care how big you are. They
don't either, and they have lots of friends. I'd wager you're mind is not equipped for such encounters. You can't take these things lightly Mr.
Molony. Let me ask you this, has your hair ever stood up on your neck?"
"Sure. Everyone has experienced that."
"Could you make it go back down?"
"No."
Pi'em turned his hands palms up and shrugged his shoulders.
"Exactly! If you're not ready, they'll take you apart. Do you think it's the white collar that makes a devil leave a person? No. The collar is
present in Hollywood because it tells the audience who the person with authority on the Bible is. Hollywood uses this as an icon to do that. Obviously I view
them as a denomination, or I would be wearing one. Look. The bottom line is we all leverage the word, and we all are trying to hold ourselves accountable to
the word. Why? The word never changes. It is man's handling of the scriptures that have us sitting here today addressing differences. And I think it is
man's interpretation that has the world confused about what is happening."
"So, what do Protestants think is going on?"
"Well they differ quite a bit. I know of some who think we will go to
heaven, some think heaven will be experienced here at a much later time, and some think heaven could be within reach as we are, right here, right now."
Molony marked on his notes. "Why do you think there is so much
diversity?"
Pi'em explained. "Let's just say Calvin's works had a
tremendous impact on them. From what I understand the book of Revelation was the only New Testament book he did 'not' write a commentary on. It's
no wonder the topics within it are out of his student's reach. Revelation does a great job of locking in the scriptures they differed enough on for them to
go to separate churches. It's sad."
"What about pre-millennialism? Does it tie into our skies?"
"Again." Pi'em cleared his throat. "This traces back to
differences of opinion on the book of Revelation. The pre-millennialists believe at the end of our age there will be a thousand year reign of Christ. Then at
the end of that time they will be raptured away. Those left will have to face the Antichrist."
Molony pushed. "What say you?"
Pi'em responded. "I understand where they are pulling their
scriptures from, and how they are using them to reach their conclusions…"
"But…" Molony leaned forward.
Pi'em shrugged his shoulders. "But even if some of them have
graduated from the rapture theory, their concept of Christ's reign before the antichrist has them in a very dangerous position."
"Why so?"
Pi'em tapped the table. "Because 6 comes before 7. Satan comes
first. They will be susceptible to believing he is Jesus coming back to reign. He arrives in his spiritual body, and he convinces the world he is God. The
pre-millennialists will be easy and willing prey."
Molony raised his eyebrows. "Wow, Pastor. You see some of the
Protestants with pretty big hurdles?"
"We all have hurdles. I told you they covered a wide swath. A lot of
it is good. Some is dangerous. This has been a very public group and has helped a lot of people. There will always be disputes over doctrine, and I am sure
they dispute some of my doctrine, but I trust our Father will reach those who are his when he needs them, when it's their time."
Molony tucked his chin. "When is their time? Isn't it time
now?"
"I'm talking about during the hour of temptation. There will be
trials in which the people have to testify to their beliefs. Some will fall in line, others will speak the Pentecostal tongue of Acts chapter 2."
Molony looked at the camera. "You're setting up quite a scenario,
Pastor."
Pi'em replied. "I didn't set it up. I'm explaining it.
It's always been there, sir."
- Amish
Molony shuffled his notes. "Let's run down a few Protestant
denominations. We'll start with the Amish. These are the Christians who avoid the progress of modern man, and they reject most technology. Some of their
horse drawn carriages use oil to illuminate the lights even to this day. They trace back to Switzerland, where they split from the Protestant church, during
the 1600's. They disagreed over issues like the rejection of the 'all church' authority, or infant baptism. They started coming to America,
predominately through Pennsylvania during the 18th century. There are now more than 200 Amish settlements around the United States."
Pi'em said. "We don't hear much from the Amish people,
they're more reserved compared to the typical outgoing American. They strive to stay in control of human nature. What I mean is things like pride or
arrogance are not tolerated, and things like humility and family are earnestly strived for. As a result they have very closely knit communities."
Molony continued. "They sure do. From one room schools, up through
adolescence, and on to marriage. It's all carefully monitored. They have a code of behavior enforced by their local bishop. His power covers everything
regarding daily life and their customs. So it seems to me there could be some brainwashing under such controlled circumstances? What say you Pi'em?"
Pi'em leaned back. "I wouldn't go that far, not at all. Every
denomination has rules and regulations to separate them from the others. If a teenage boy is riding in the back of a buggy, and he sees another boy pass him in
a convertible Corvette with his girlfriend, that doesn't mean the boy in the buggy is missing anything. In fact the boy in the Corvette very well could
'drive' right through life, missing everything, because his mind was allowed to pursue happiness without any guidance, structure, or support?"
Molony smiled and added. "We all know about the distraction that comes
from a pretty girl in a red dress!"
Pi'em said. "In retrospect it seems like it could be a safer, or
more innocent life for a child growing up. However. I would like to see them get a little bit more into the spirit of life. By this I mean when they play a
simple game like volleyball, it's okay to have fun, but not to compete? I just think there is quite a bit to gain from some of the elements of life they
abstain from. Plus being an ex-Marine myself, I feel it's important for all Americans to serve their country… not only their community."
Molony said. "Some are modernized, Pastor. Some Mennonites have a very
secular lifestyle."
Pi'em answered. "As you can see, America has every blend of
religion."
- Baptist
Molony looked at the camera. "Another Christian denomination is Baptist. It was also founded around 1600, but in England. About 25 years later it reached
Rhode Island. They encourage religious freedom, and strive for separation of church and state. They are about 31 million strong, and as implied by the name,
they believe in baptism by total immersion, which is done as an adult."
Pi'em held up three fingers. "They are split in their end time
views. Some think there will be a 'Pre-Tribulation' rapture, some a mid-trib, and others a post-trib." He grabbed his first finger.
"Obviously the pre-tribs are in more danger, but there's plenty of danger to go around if you follow any type of rapture."
"What about full immersion baptism as an adult?" He asked.
"Easy." Pi'em said. "Christ set the example with John.
We should follow that. We do it as adults because it is a decision that is to be made by a mature mind. Children are incapable of such reasoning. They should
be dedicated, not baptized."
- Lutheran
Molony marked a check on his notes. "The Lutherans reject any type of millennialism. They believe they will be on earth to the very end, which supposedly
won't happen until a thousand years after Jesus returns? They get their name from Martin Luther, who was excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church for
his beliefs."
Pi'em added. "I've heard Lutherans referred to as Catholic
Light, or Diet Catholicism."
Molony's grinned. "I haven't heard those names. Go on…"
Pi'em continued. "First, I must say Lutheran's hold the
scriptures as sufficient for all Christian doctrine. So they have the tools if they want to work with them. But there are areas they rub me the wrong way a
bit."
"Such as?" Molony asked.
"Well." Pi'em folded his hands together, and placed them in
his lap. "There a little issue with baptism being the time one is given salvation, there's the concept of the Holy Communion being literal, and any
organization elevating people like Mary, or the Pope, to a level beyond what we all are, is in my opinion, falling short."
"That's a mouthful, Pastor." Molony backtracked.
"Salvation and baptism?"
"Yes sir. I teach that baptism is a choice to be made by each
individual, but in the end it is a ritual. We should do it, but if you don't it won't stop Jesus from saving you."
"Like the malefactor on the cross."
"Or any child. Prior to their age of accountability they are covered
under grace. Llet's say on Saturday night a teenager watches Jesus of Nazareth. He awakens on Sunday morning and grabs his dad in excitement, 'Dad!
Dad! Let's go to church! I understand now. I believe it. I get it. I want to be a Christian. Last night I prayed for half an hour. I asked the Lord to be
in my heart. I understand and will set my feet in Christ's direction! It was so warm. I got tingles that wouldn't go away. I cried… I'm ready,
dad.' But on the way to the church there is a terrible accident. Both the father and son are killed instantly. Are you telling me that because the dad was
baptized he will be in heaven, but the son missed out on salvation?"
Molony responded. "That might be a little problem."
Pi'em added. "Specially if the father was baptized as a kid, but
quit going to church more 20 years ago and didn't want anything to do with his church."
Molony inquired. "So if the boy would have been saved anyway, it's
not really that important, right?"
"I wouldn't say that, otherwise Christ wouldn't have done
it." Pi'em explained. "But forcing the ordinance puts a certain amount of importance on the 'baptizer', as they stand between God and the
baptizee, if you will? That is a symptom and a contributor to other bad doctrine."
"For instance?" Molony pressed.
Pi'em shrugged his shoulders. "Like, say, the concept of church
members having the power to forgive sins. 'How many did you save?' 'I saved 10 today!' 'Hey, I'm somebody!' The next thing
they'll have enough saves to be ranked like Peter or Paul… No sir, I'm against confession to another man unless you are seeking counseling. Counseling
is professional advice, and that's way different from forgiving sins."
"Having the ability to forgive sins was one of the claims they
cornered Christ with."
"Even though he was, who among us is qualified to forgive on God's
behalf? To me that is a little more presumptuous than I would feel comfortable with."
- Presbyterian
Molony kept plowing. "With the few moments we have left, I'd like
to mention the Presbyterians. Many say these are the lukewarm Christians, because they aren't over anxious about what's happening.
"Some might take offense to lukewarm, you might say 'slow and
steady wins the race', or something like that?" Pi'em smiled. "But they are preparing for end times."
"They dwell in eschatology, where there are four major events they
look to…"
Pi'em held his finger up. "Even though they have internal
conflicts regarding the timing of them."
"My sources say they agree we will see the second coming of Christ,
which will usher in a thousand year period called the Millennium. They anticipate a 7-year period when the antichrist will rule, being both a religious and
political leader. He will provoke the war of Armageddon, which results in the deaths of most humans. That will make God pour out his wrath." Molony looked
at Pi'em. "How did I do?"
"Don't forget at some point during all this, they believe Jesus
will descend from the skies to rapture away all his born again believers."
"It's amazing. The differences between the faiths we discussed
tonight are subtle, but they all seem to indicate something is on our horizon."
Pi'em smiled. "A lot of Christians have similar beliefs, or
spin-offs of them. I think we've covered plenty of information to work with."
Molony reached out to shake hands. "We'll, this sure has been an
enlightening evening Pastor. I can't thank you enough for stepping up. I'm sure a lot of us have many new questions as a result of the information you
shared with us tonight, and I look forward to our next meeting."
"Thank you. I apologize for not throwing the heavy punches you may have hoped for, but I truly love my brothers and sisters in the Lord. We all come out of confusion from somewhere, from everywhere. Myself included. Nobody knows everything, so we should do our best to remember that as we study our Father's word."
