Questions on Daniel and the coming Tribulation...

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Brandon

Questions on Daniel and the coming Tribulation...

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Senior Master Tiller

Posts: 70

(08/12/08 14:21:10)

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I would like to get some input from you all on the book of Daniel and the coming tribulation. The book of Mark 13:20 tells us that the time of the tribulation was shortened. Revelation 9:5 tells us of a 5 month period of the locust.

I was looking at the appendix of the companion bible last night and looking at Bullinger's comments concerning the 70 weeks of 7 in the book of Daniel. 70 multiplied by 7 equals 490 years, of which 483 of those years have already come to pass. The remaining 7 would be the coming tribulation.

Now the book of Mark says the time was shortened. Satan's half of that 7 year period would have been 3.5 years… PM teaches that Satan's 3.5 years is now broken down to just 5 months if I understand correctly…

So where does the first half of the 7 year period fit in?

What also has me a bit confused is throughout the rest of Revelation it talks about the 1260 days for the two witnesses and the 42 months for Satan (same amount of time, 3.5 years). If the time was shortened to just 5 months, why does Revelation keep referencing 42 months and 1260 days?

Also, it seems odd that God would have told Daniel about these 70 weeks only for him to change it and make the fulfillment of those 490 years null. (By shortening Satan's time to just 5 months there could be no fulfillment of the 490 years…)

I would just like to see some insight from the rest of you on these questions.

Thank You,

Brandon
Christianity is not a religion. It's Reality...

Joyce and Mom

[-]

Senior Master Servant

Posts: 3089

(08/12/08 19:16:32)

Daniel 12 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

Daniel 12
1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

5Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

6And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

8And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

13But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

soundthealarm

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Major Master Servant

Posts: 4110

(08/12/08 22:10:49)

Moderator

Hi Brandon,

My understanding is that the whole 7 year period is shortened to 5 months.

You are right it would not be 490 years, but 483 years and five months. The last week of Daniel is shortened- it contains the same actions of the 7 year period condensed into a five month period. Satan's time de facto is 2 1/2 months (the middle of the week). That would correspond to the 42 months.

You are right Joyce and mom, it was not for Daniel to understand but unsealed for those at the "end".

SoundtheAlarm
Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand

Brandon

[-]

Senior Master Tiller

Posts: 72

(08/13/08 14:10:54)

I did some more studying on the topic so I could have more clearification. This is a copy of an email I sent to some of my friends (other SC students) we were all talking about it... At the end though, I still have a question concerning why the 42months and 1260 days of the two witnesses are used, when it was already known that the time was shortened...

Daniel 9

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

So up until Jesus came as Messiah that was the 69 weeks.

26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

AFTER the 62 weeks which now total 69 weeks Jesus was to be killed. So that does leave room for your conclusion. However, if it were so, what you suggest, I would think it should be mentioned in the bible as part of the week. Notice that the first two sets of weeks. The 7 and the 62, didn't stop in the middle of any of the weeks. For your theory to be correct, it would mean we are already in the middle of the week.

27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

He is Satan, he is confirming a covenant with many for one week it says. What covenant? Unless it's stated and I missed it, probably the promises that he will bring peace to the world... Make note though, he does this for one week. So Christ time teaching couldn't be included, in that week.

Then in the middle of this last and final week he causes the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. Christ is our daily sacrifice since we don't do blood anymore. Since he is here on earth, or so many will think, that is why it's taken away. Is it not?

Now let's look at Matthew 24 if we may...

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The subject appears to be the great tribulation.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Definetly shortened. Doesn't say by how much though. So this is up to us to figure out.

Revelation 9...

When the fifth angel sounds Satan falls here, the locust come to torment men for five months, only men without the seal of God. The locust king is Satan.

So looking back at Daniel it says satan confirms a covenant with many for one week. So that whole week must have been shortened down to 5 months. Because here in Revelation we have satan on earth and his buddies screwing around with folks for 5 months.

With this information there is no way to figure that there is any additional 3.5 year period. So that whole 7 year period must be only a 5month period.

I think looking further into this has helped me further understand and not get side tracked.

I still am interested though why it mentions 42 months and 1260 days for the two witnesses. I understand Revelation isen't in order. But wasen't the book of Matthew written well before the book of Revelation?

Jesus told us in Matthew the time was shortened. So why in Revelation would the times all not be adjusted? If you all can explain that I got a lolly pop for you.

Brandon
Christianity is not a religion. It's Reality...

Joyce and Mom

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Senior Master Servant

Posts: 3100

(08/13/08 22:09:15)

Jesus talked to the early church, he talked to the end time generation, often those lines are crossed with misunderstanding....SC has some good
tapes on that topic. You can call the church and ask them to send you a list of cassettes or videos on any topic you would like.

Brandon

[-]

Senior Master Tiller

Posts: 78

(08/14/08 09:02:25)

Thanks, and I am familiar with that Joyce. I was looking to see what the folks on here thought on this topic as well. Apparently, no one else can answer it either.

Brandon
Christianity is not a religion. It's Reality...

MMiller777

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Senior Master Tiller

Posts: 180

(08/14/08 09:43:21)

I would submit the time is the same but the days of tribulation have been shortened. Think of it as the last five months in a seven year period.

Last Edited By: MMiller777 08/14/08 09:45:55. Edited 1 times.

Brandon

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Senior Master Tiller

Posts: 85

(08/15/08 21:38:33)

miller, are you saying the 7 years is still literal in a sense? Satan would still only have 5 mo. But your thinkin for sday 6.5yrs there would be a lot of trouble on earth?...

Brandon
Christianity is not a religion. It's Reality...

yakabunch

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Major Master Servant

Posts: 5130

(08/16/08 03:58:55)

by the witnesses being prophesied in days gives them ten more than the prophesy of 42 months. notice those of GOD spoken in days and those against GOD is spoken in months of moons. in CHRIST, yaka.

Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

yakabunch

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Major Master Servant

Posts: 5132

(08/16/08 06:44:49)

i would also like to add the two witnesses of chapter 11 of revelation, their deaths give you the exact countdown to the second advent. if you are alive and aware of this come to pass prophesy, it will be 3 1/2 days till the return of CHRIST, i feel these are 24 hour days. only thing in prophesy that changes is the time. nothing else. in CHRIST, yaka

Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

MMiller777

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Senior Master Tiller

Posts: 181

(08/16/08 09:42:12)

"""miller, are you saying the 7 years is still literal in a sense? Satan would still only have 5 mo. But your thinkin for sday 6.5yrs there would be a lot of trouble on earth?... """

No.

Think of it this way. We still need time for all souls to be born of woman. So we still have X amount of time and then at the end the original plan is condensed into 5 months. Christ stated that no one could withstand the 7 years so that is why it is condensed.

Actually there are some real world considerations to this. For example...how long does it take to foreclose a home if you can't make the payments?

skooter942000

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Senior Master Servant

Posts: 3390

(08/16/08 11:21:24)

...why did CHRIST speak in parables?

Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables

Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and [their] sins should be forgiven them.....

[+]
...........................................................................................

1Cr 1:1¶ And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

1Cr 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1Cr 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

1Cr 2:4 And my speech and my preaching [was] not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

1Cr 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

1Cr 2:6 ¶ Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

1Cr 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory: ........Etc

skooter942000

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Senior Master Servant

Posts: 3391

(08/16/08 12:41:23)

See Rev 17 (for further help here)

The first portion of the 5 months (I.E. the 1st portion which is 2 1/2 months)
- is when the KINGS of the EARTH set up The SYSTEM.

- IT'S A POLITICAL SYSTEM

Rev 17:17

For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

- This is also clearly illustrated in Rev 13:1- (on)

Then comes the deadly wound (then comes he who heals it)
- which is satan himself , (in the ROLE of the SPURIOUS jesus_)

Rev 13 & Rev 17 (that shows the 1st portion of what is to come)

Teaching the FUTURE from DANIEL (is harder than from REVELATION)

- that's my personal opinion

Daniel (is more of a side angle of things to come)
= Pastors words

- Daniel is not as complete as REVELATION (my words)
- not knocking The book of Daniel (one Iota)

....it is a gifted work

The events remain the same , (only the time has been shortened)
- so things , when they begin , (shall move swiftly)

- And we all know the season of the LOCUST

Don

irishrain

[-]

Junior Master Servant

Posts: 2972

(08/16/08 21:11:02)

Good answers everyone

here is a little review, note the scrips included. But you probably allready know this this anyway.

Satan's government of fallen angels disquised as angels of light/truth (2 Cor 11:13-15) with crowns and breastplates (Rev 9:7) shall set up (Dan 2:1-6)satan's image before satan as head arrives and is placed on that image. ( Dan 2:32, Rev 13:13-14) But receive power as kings one hour (Rev 17:12)with the beast system(satan's government).

Satan does not arrive till the midst of the week( Dan 9:27) or the second half of the five months. You can see that in (Rev 12: 14)

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

"a time, and times, and half a time" is now shortened to two 1/2 months
"the woman is hidden from the face of the serpent," "The face" is of the spurious government is in the site, and the woman is hidden in the wilderness/world.

A half hour of silence in Heaven when he' s kicked out is seen in this vs.

Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

The "last" 2 in 1/2 months of the 5 months is aprox when he, satan arrives in the "midst of the week" as the spurious Messiah playing his role as false prophet.

Also Pastor did a study a few years back called "the Change", which is a must.

Pro 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

skooter942000

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Senior Master Servant

Posts: 3397

(08/18/08 11:58:58)

(Irish

) - great addition

( - it is most imporant)

"we'll see things set up"
(they are coming to fruition ......."still")

. . .Follow the MONEY!!!

(Curr3ncy)

===============
========================
================================

[&]

.....just kidding

SeekthetruthCR

[-]

Senior Fellowlaborer

Posts: 60

(08/18/08 12:32:00)

Great discussions! Don, you made a joke about following the currency but it also touches on a key point. To make a one world system we need things like a universal form of currency and such. Watch in the coming years/months as the world/USA work together to try and solve the global economic slowdown by working more together. If the US goes down the tubes, the rest of the world comes with. Kenities need the US consumer to keep spending to fuel their wealth. The entire world is embracing a more socialist form of government. Satan needs this to edify his power. Common sense tells us that no truly democratic and free God fearing world would accept him. He needs the world populace to become poorer and more downtrodden before accepting him. These are the signs of the end that the elect watchman must pay attention to.

"Call unto me and I will answer, and I will show thee great and mighty things, which ye knowst not!" Jeremiah 33:3

Give praise and thanks to God for the edification of his elect!
Chris

skooter942000

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Senior Master Servant

Posts: 3402

(08/18/08 13:51:47)

-Hey SeekthetruthCR

. . .didn't mean for that to be the Joke
( - i suppose the dancing Elephant was too much)
= "so not to forget"

- the monies will change , (no doubt about this)

.....anyway the funny was supposed to be "about the lollipop"
From post # 3

Re: (from Brandon)

Jesus told us in Matthew the time was shortened.
So why in Revelation would the times all not be adjusted?
If you all can explain that I got a lolly pop for you.

( - sorry for the confusion)

Don

Brandon

[-]

Senior Master Tiller

Posts: 86

(08/18/08 16:38:10)

Irish... It doesn't say he comes in the midst of the week. I would think he comes at the begining of that 5mo window. He is confirming a covenant for one week, and in the middle of that week he causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease.

There is a lot more yet to unfold so I guess we just need to stay awake for it.

27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Brandon
Christianity is not a religion. It's Reality...

skooter942000

[-]

Senior Master Servant

Posts: 3403

(08/18/08 17:49:22)

. . .Follow the Silence

- Heaven is silent , (at one point)

- But is the earth?

Rev 13:3

And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Rev 13:4

And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Rev 13:5

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months.

Rev 13:6

And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Rev 13:7

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

- this is not the first half of the 5 months

( - where is the second portion if this is the first 2 1/2 months)?

- i don't see 84 months . (not with him or with his friends)
- When they come - look up (....at what)?

. . .its going to be a sight to behold

- Separate in Rev 9 (the kenite locusts and the scorpion locusts)
- both have the same master

- follow the stages (Joel 1)

.....it's all about the timing

soundthealarm

[-]

Major Master Servant

Posts: 4123

(08/18/08 18:33:34)

Moderator

Hi Brandon:

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(KJV)

confirm:

1396 gabar (gaw-bar');

a primitive root; to be strong; by implication, to prevail, act insolently:

KJV-- exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more [strength], strengthen, be stronger, be valiant.

the covenant:
1285 beriyth (ber-eeth');

from 1262 (in the sense of cutting [like 1254]); a compact (because made by passing between pieces of flesh): -confederacy, [con-] feder [-ate], covenant, league.

with many=

Satan will strengthen the confederacy during the whole week. When he appears as antichrist in the midst of the week he will cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease (communion)

Satan's spirit will be very active during the first 2 1/2 months firming up his confederacy in order that he will have the people behind him when he appears as antichrist.

SoundtheAlarm
Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand

Soldiershield

[-]

Junior Master Servant

Posts: 2751

(08/19/08 02:31:27)

Very good question and study Brandon.
I really think the figs here gave great comments and answers.
Thank you everyone. Sorry! Brandon it wasn't totally answered as you hoped for. But Pastor
would then said.....GP! have a Blessed day!
Agape,
Betty

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